How law firms can get more out of CallRail: 5 takeaways from Lunch Hour Legal Marketing

Conrad: [00:00:00] So I, I have this philosophical point that, um, the more part of the job now becomes I'm going back and training the model and making it more accustomed to my firm and myself and, and how we actually want this to work. Do, are you seeing a discrepancy with how intake, um, or, or law firms in general are feeding that data back in and the effectiveness of voice assist?

Chris: I don't think as we're in this kind of early stage, I don't think it's being grasped that you can't just set it and forget it. I think there is a need to continuously improve the same way you would treat any person that you brought into your intake team. Um, you're not going to sit there, train somebody, throw them on the phones, and then expect them to provide perfect responses within the first week

Announcer: Welcome to Lunch Hour Legal Marketing, teaching you how to promote, market, and make fat stacks for [00:01:00] your legal practice. Here on Legal Talk Network.

Conrad: All right, dear listeners, um, we are super excited to have CallRail here. Now, we have been accused of pandering on occasion to our sponsors, but there's a reason we do that. Um, CallRail has been a partner of ours for a very, very long time. Same with you, Gyi. Um, at the Lunch Hour Legal Marketing Summit, we asked people how many of them were actually users of CallRail, and I think the number was around 95%.

Um, but we wanna go deeper, and this is gonna be all about CallRail and their integration. So if you are a CallRail user, listen in. Specifically, if you are considering or work with Clio, SmokeSign, Lawmatics, Docketwise, or SmartAdvocate, [00:02:00] we've got some nuggets coming up for you to stay tuned to All right, everyone, welcome back.

Uh, we're super happy to have Chris Nelson from CallRail. Chris, we've been buddies for probably four or five years at this point in time? Yeah, going on five years now. Okay. Um, and CallRail has been one of the earliest vendors that we, that Mockingbird and AttorneySync have used for a long time. They're a sponsor of the podcast, so we wanna do the clear, uh, sponsor of the podcast.

Gyi: But there's a reason that we have this kind of endorsed sponsorship model. This is gonna be a discussion about the new integrations that CallRail, um, has deployed recently. Most of you, most of the listeners, are already working with CallRail, and so we wanna go a deeper tour in terms of what they're doing and give Chris really the floor to share most of that.

Conrad: One of the things I think, and again, I, I, I s- I sound like we're just kissing up to CallRail too much here, is lots of you are [00:03:00] using some of CallRail. Right. And I think what, what is, is missed, and I think the reason that CallRail continues to sponsor us and, and, and get out in front of the legal industry as a whole, is there is so much more if you peel the onion back.

Gyi: There's so much more that you can do from a functionality perspective. It is a lot more than what it was just three years ago. And so that's why we brought Chris on. Yeah, and, and as you mentioned, uh, Conrad, and what we're gonna go dig deeper on today is, uh, CallRail's integrations. You know, we talk about all the time about the challenges of having all of these disparate systems- Mm-hmm

Chris: and the time lost from having to enter information across systems, and CallRail has just launched five new integrations that help close that gap. Chris, tell us about these new integrations. Yeah, it absolutely. Thank you for having me. Uh- Of course ... you know, we've launched multiple [00:04:00] integrations, either enhancements to current integrations that we've had with l- partners within the legal industry like Clio or Lawmatics, um, in addition to some new ones that we've brought on board with Smoke Ball, with Docketwise, with Smart Advocate, where we've tried to expand where we are and the lawyers that we can reach and work with within legal.

It's really just been a, a combination of, you know, uh, taking those core platform capabilities that we have and adding new integration partners who might be partners who are working with another, another group of lawyers and law firms, or taking what we have with our existing partners who we've worked with for several years and really enhancing and allowing them to utilize things that they couldn't otherwise before use with their CallRail platform, and has it integrated into the existing platform that they have.

Conrad: There, there are two kinda use cases that I think that are particularly powerful that jumped off the, the page to me as we were, uh, chatting about this. The [00:05:00] first one is that every tracked call can automatically update contact records inside the case management tool, uh, which streamlines intake, uh, keeps client profiles, you know, way more up to date in real time.

And then the second one which I think is really exciting is, is that the voice assist can actually recognize known callers and personalize conversations, uh, for those callers, uh, you know, if it's off hours or, you know, as a, as a rollover type of service when, uh, folks can't pick up. And, uh, what a great way to, uh, deliver a better experience, uh, in terms of, um, you know, tailoring conversations specifically based on we already know this, this is a former client, this is a current client, this is a prospect, and have specific conversation points, uh, tailored to each of those different use cases.

Chris: Absolutely. I think you've got a scenario where, I mean, law is at its heart a personal service, and [00:06:00] the experience that somebody who is a client receives from the firm is very important as to how they perceive the firm, um, w- how they work with the firm, whether or not they give that business to the firm or to somebody else.

And I think this in, in, in terms of like recognizing between new and existing clients, the ability to personalize that just adds and enhances the client experience that these firms are able to provide. You know, one of the things that we have spent a lot of our clients' money on is these integrations, right?

Conrad: And having this data right there already makes things a lot easier. Chris, I'd love you to go through, I mean, we talked about the integrations. Uh, we've got, um, Clio, SmokeSignall, Lawmatics, Docketwise, SmartAdvocate. Um, I'd love you to kind of tease out each one of these, what makes it special, how users can, um, actually configure this to make this happen, or whether or not it's just automatically happening right off the bat, if it's just native like that.

Chris: So, yeah, absolutely. Um, just to answer that second question first, [00:07:00] once you have authorized the integration within CallRail and as needed within the partner, those are automatically gonna do whatever it is that the integration is set up to do. So that is a one-click, two-click at most kind of scenario. L- Put, put myself in the seat of like, I'm Joe, marketing manager at blah, blah, blah law firm.

Conrad: What do I need, like, is it, how do, how do I get notification? Like, where do I find this? How do I make this happen? Is it on the CallRail side? Is it on the partner side? Is it both? What does that look like so I can actually go get this done? Most of the time it's gonna be certainly you have to do the one click within our integrations library on the CallRail side.

Chris: Right. And then there is gonna be some aspect of what somebody might have to do with the partner themselves. It's just depending on what it is that the partner has set up to allow it to happen. So you would go into our integrations library, um, you would click on it, you would down- you would allow for that integration to occur, and then it might push you through and there might be an additional layer that the [00:08:00] partner requires, um, where they've asked you to set up something or have some kind of other thing that needs to be clicked on on the partner side to make it happen.

So it's basically no more than those two steps though for each of them. And then once that's been done on both sides, um, you are able to transmit the information as has been set up within the integration. So if you go into like the Clio Manage integration that we have now, um, and what is great about that, it's the first integration within the legal space where we have allowed for scheduling capabilities through our Voice Assist product.

So Voice Assist is a AI receptionist, handles any kind of calls, could be overflow calls, um, could be, uh, after-hours calls, could be just calls all the time if you're a solo practitioner and you don't have the ability to answer your phone because you're in court half the day. Um, it allows you to do that.

It then allows Voice Assist to [00:09:00] qualify and then check within Clio Manage as to whether or not there is availability on your calendar, and then actually to book in Clio Manage so that it can be all handled automatically without you having to do anything. So that's really the, the key component and what we think of as the first of that type of integration with that provider.

So as you get into some of these other ones, you're not going to have the same level of booking capabilities. Um, you'll be able to take the call, you'll be able to transmit all of the call details from Voice Assist and/or the broader call tracking numbers that you're using into, say, SmokeSign, um, where you have all the calls.

It automatically creates and updates a contact in SmokeSign with the typical call tracking data that would ha- what you would have. Um, it then can also to sit there with Voice Assist and really be able to understand what is in [00:10:00] SmokeSign, the contacts that might be in SmokeSign, and be able to then pull that information so that Voice Assist is answering things in a way that understands what might already be within SmokeSign in the client records.

Um, same kind of thing, Lawmatics, uh, also has in that kind of integration that we've put together. So, you know, the, the Lawmatics integration as it was, was very robust because it includes both call tracking and our capabilities with respect to premium conversation intelligence, so call summaries, call sentiments, and those different aspects of understanding what's in the conversation.

But it-- this enhanced integration layers in Voice Assist capabilities also and allows you to pull that information from your Lawmatics CRM and personalize the intake experience that your team is offering to the, the prospective client. Docketwise, Smart Advocate also very [00:11:00] similar. Um, they are taking call tracking data, moving it into those platforms, as well as being able to understand and pulling information out of those platforms to enhance the response that VoiceAssist is giving to a prospective or current client.

Conrad: Chris, you mentioned qualification in VoiceAssist. Do you, I'm curious, do you have any data on accuracy around that, right? Um, both positive and, and, and, and, you know, negative, like yes, we, we, we over-qualified too many, too many opportunities or we under-qualified. What, do you have any data on what that looks like?

I don't have any data directly on that, um, because it's so new. But I would say- Right ... that it's just a continually enhancing process where you take a look at how VoiceAssist is treating your lead qualification, whether or not it views it as a qualified lead or not. Um- Right ... you're adding things to your profile to allow it to understand and read that, um, and continuing to just [00:12:00] use and test what it is that's going on, how it's answering things, and just continually monitor it and then improve it So I, I have this philosophical point that, um, the more, part of the job now becomes I'm going back and training the model and making it more accustomed to my firm and myself and, and how we actually want this to work.

Chris: Do, are you seeing a discrepancy with how intake, um, or, or law firms in general are feeding that data back in and the effectiveness of voice assist? I don't think, as we're in this kind of early stage, I don't think it's being grasped that you can't just set it and forget it. I think there is a need to continuously improve the same y- way you would treat any person that you brought into your intake team.

Um- Right ... you're not going to sit there, train somebody, throw them on the phones, and then expect them to provide perfect responses within the first week. Uh, you're gonna have to continuously monitor them. You're gonna [00:13:00] have to continuously evaluate. You're gonna have to continuously coach and understand and help them to improve, and I think that needs to be treated the same way with respect to how you handle an AI receptionist also.

Conrad: 100%. So Chris or Gyi, I'm curious if you guys have a perspective on who that person is. Is that an intake person doing that? Is that a, is that the managing partner of a smaller firm? Like, who is doing that process? Because I feel like that is so important, and we tend to overlook the importance of managing intake.

Gyi: We tend to not tr- not do that job because it feels like an easy job. In, in either Chris or Gyi, your perspective, who is the right person to be running that feedback loop, either to a human, or more importantly, to AI? Yeah, I, I, I'll give you my two cents on it, and, uh, you already kind of alluded to the point of, like, what's kind of size firm are you?

Um, you know, if you're a solo, guess what? Everything lands in your lap. I think the, the, the ideal situation, if you've got, um, you know, if you're at the g- stage of growth that it, uh, it's, your business supports this, [00:14:00] is a director of intake, and, and my view has always been director of intake reports up to marketing because i- i- and if not, you know, 'cause I know firms do this differently, if your, if your intake department lives in operations and is outside of marketing, make sure those folks are collaborating because that's, it's that virtuous cycle of intake and marketing working together to improve experience from the first time someone, you know, sees you, to calls you, all the way through service delivery.

Um, that to me is the place that that should be managed, and, and, and that's, you know, intake directors should have this on their scorecards. Like, they should be looking at, um, sentiment scores, and they should be looking at, um, you know, all of the different metrics that we typically think about in terms of intake i- i- in the context of your call data and your CRM data.

Chris: I agree with that. I mean, I think it, like you said, it depends on h- what size firm it is You know, what you're working with. Um, and then also, you know, just based off of that, [00:15:00] I, I think that overlap between marketing and operations is a friction point. Um, and, you know, being able to s- synthesize and eliminate that kind of friction and get to a situation where that information is flowing freely, um, and people have an understanding of what's coming in on those calls, how those calls are being answered, um, how they tie in.

You know, is there a particular campaign that is driving in a certain type of call? Um, you know, different things like that all should be part of a just continuous improvement feedback loop to really maximize that type of client experience that you're getting. Uh, especially I think, you know, given the fact that you've got a little bit different competitive landscape with these firms, um, as more and more of the larger kind of franchise type, especially PI firms, are getting involved and/or you've got these managed service operations that are trying to get into the personal injury space, um, you know, they're gonna put an overwhelming amount of money [00:16:00] into your marketing dollars.

Gyi: And as a smaller firm or even a mid-size firm who r- who is m- more regionally oriented, you know, the ability to compete on that type of priva- uh, that type of personal experience or client experience is gonna be even more important going forward. Yeah, I agree with that. And, and I think, you know, we, uh, I know that, uh, attribution is a big issue overall, but, but to me, like when I think about the integration between CallRail and CRM in particular, that's where the magic happens because now you're gonna be able to see quantitative and qualitative attribution data, including in sentiment analysis on intake, all of the data that you have that relates to phone calls and how those phone calls go from a business standpoint and, uh, marketing disp- d- uh, disposition standpoint in your CRM, like that's happening seamlessly.

And, and the power of that to be able to, uh, [00:17:00] you know, course correct on intake or understand performance of marketing, like this is the whole enchilada. And to your point is, is folks become m- there's more sophisticated operators in the space. There's more dollars going into the space. Like this is one of those competitive points that like you just can't afford not to have.

Like you have to be able to understand what's working, what's not working, what the impact is. You know, Conrad and I talk about all the time between segmenting brand and non-brand, but the only way to do this is to get that call data into your CRM and get that stuff, uh, working together properly so that you can understand things like, oh, this person was actually, you know, their last click attribution was an ad, but they told us that they were referred, uh, by their brother, and so you can actually build reports and dashboards that segment, um, new business, uh, based on that.

Conrad: And that, that to me is like one of the real powers of the CallRail integrations, especially in the CRM context. I think there's a, uh, there's a risk that there's a lot of over-attribution towards that, [00:18:00] that last touch area, especially with Google Ads, um, even though there might have been 15 to 18 steps that got the client from first touch and understanding all the way through to signing with you as a, as a firm.

It's the difference between last touch lead source and the concept of touch points or the overall journey, right? And- The journey. The journey is the key. A- and the key here, I, I think this is really important. We're going to capture-- We can now capture a lot of that journey. We will never capture all of that journey.

Some of that journey is subconscious, so, like, it, it's not even capturable. But th- these integrations make it much m- much easier to have a robust understanding of your omni-channel presence and i- instead of last touch, last touch, last touch. And if you do last touch, and we've got the data to show this, Google Business Profile and your agency who's running that is gonna look like they're doing a much better job than they actually are [00:19:00] 100% And that's why we have no friends Except for CallRail and our other-

indoor sponsors. Uh, speaking of the indoor sponsors, um, I wanted to throw two of these together, and this is a curiosity point, but, um, Lawmatics came out with their lead scoring. I believe, and I'm- don't know if I'm right about it, it doesn't matter, that they were the first to actually do that. Were they building that off of your infrastructure?

W- w- w- is, is that basically, not a white label, but a use of your infr- infrastructure and AI, um, to do that? Or, or is that something separate that they built out? I can't speak to, to details on that. I, I could tell you- Okay ... that they have built a very, very robust integration using our data. So there, there's stuff that they have built out.

Chris: Um, I have seen a lot of what Lawmatics has done, and it is really, really a useful CRM for somebody who is a consumer-oriented firm. Uh, I think they've got a lot of [00:20:00] stuff in there that is best in class for the industry, uh, and, and really could benefit somebody who is, uh, you know, i- is really having that kind of consumer focus and the constant turnover in terms of clients or needing prospective clients.

Conrad: It's just a real quality product. W- what are some of the, the hits, the highlights between Lawmatics and CallRail that, that, that you think they're doing from a best in class perspective? I mean, at the risk of pandering like crazy to two of our sponsors in one answer, let's have it. I mean, I just think that they've got a lot of

They were the first to incorporate all of the sentiments and summaries into the integration. Um, they have taken things like lead scoring that you were talking about to another level. Um, the ability to manipulate the data within that platform, I think it, it's a, it's a very easy to use platform. Um, and [00:21:00] I think that you have the ability to generate reporting in there that you would not otherwise be able to generate with some of the other platforms that you might be working with.

Chris: Um, and just to get a real understanding of what you're doing, not only on a case level, but as a firm- on a firm level, and then to get that and adjust that to a campaign level also I think is all something that you can manipulate within Lawmatics. Yeah, and I, I just, like, c- carry that forward, I think the, um, you know, the, the magic to me is, you know, CallRail's got all of this data going on that relates to sentiment or, and there, there are all sorts of things you can set up to qualify and segment prospects.

Conrad: And then with the integration, Lawmatics, when it hits those certain qualification points, you can have different workflows based on that sentiment and the, the, the conversation candor and the, and the topics that are being covered from the [00:22:00] CallRail data, and that's happening seamlessly. So someone that comes in and saying, you know, X, Y, and Z about their case, taking that data from CallRail, getting that in Lawmatics, Lawmatics saying, "Hey, this matches up with the qualification record for this workflow."

And then whether it's escalation or a different follow-up process or enriching the data, like, "Hey, we're missing these things. We gotta ask these questions," I think that's seamless. And especially with voice assist for, uh, CallRail can, can say, "Hey, look, this is what we're currently missing in our Lawmatics that we wanna get.

Chris: Ask those questions of the prospect, enrich the record data," and so you're not going back and forth trying to, like, get more information from the prospects. It's happening, uh- Right ... with the technology, and I think that's really powerful and, and really makes a, uh ... It's a more, it's a better experience from a, uh, trying to be more efficient, uh, in, in making sure that you're covering all those bases versus, you know, if you're, if you've gotta go and update that record, and then you've gotta go and follow up with the prospect, and you've gotta go email them later or call them [00:23:00] back.

Like, to be able to execute this and, and to enrich your contact record data in real time on the call, like, I think that that's a really powerful use case. I mean, anytime that you add steps where somebody has to do something, it increases the chance that you have some kind of error or you drop something or you miss something and it doesn't get completed.

Conrad: So anytime I think that you can really automate that and allow that to skip over the need for s- for it to be done, um, w- where, like I have to remember to do it, um, I think that is beneficial to the overall process. Hey, Chris, I wanna change gears a little bit. One of the, one of the things that we've struggled with, um, as marketers is the inbounds, which we like to count as leads, which aren't leads because it's someone who's already working with the firm.

Um, and so easy enough to, and we've been doing this, we've been preaching this for a long time with CallRail, only report on known numbers, right? So o- only report on [00:24:00] the first time that someone calls in fr- where that number is recognized. But there's also the importance from a user perspective, from that end consumer perspective, not the lawyer perspective, but the end, end, end consumer of making that experience less cumbersome, um, with an intake person who has to reacquaint themselves with who this is right off the bat.

Chris: Talk to me about how you guys are using those known callers to deliver a better experience and then put that data into one of these systems. Yeah. Uh, that's a very interesting question. Um, I think, you know, it starts with the ability to differentiate between the known and the unknown callers. It goes to another level, though, I think with respect to you can provide a whisper message to your intake team so that they understand, okay, this is a new caller, or this is somebody who is, is completely, you know, has been with us for a long time.

You could even get to that whisper message so that you can understand it's coming in on a particular [00:25:00] campaign. Um, and I think that that is something that is really important with respect to some of the data that we've seen for AI searches, where when a caller is calling in and coming in based off of an AI search, um, they tend to be a little bit different type of caller than somebody who is just calling in in some other kinds of scenarios.

And so the ability to prep the intake team with an understanding of that and to be able to sit there and say, "This may have come in through a ChatGPT search or something along those lines," um, allows that intake team to be able to understand and h- know how to respond in a way that they might not otherwise respond.

Um, the, the callers tend to be, from the data that we've seen, I, I... They might, uh, they're a little bit more, I don't wanna say aggressive, but they certainly have a feeling that they understand the law more than somebody who is your typical legal caller So that's something where intake teams and being able to prep an intake [00:26:00] team in that scenario would be able to provide a little bit better personalized experience for that kind of caller.

Uh, same kind of thing though with respect to, you know, whisper messages is just the first part. You've got the ability to route your calls as you want them to route, depending on what type of caller is, um, where the campaign is, what the, whether they're a known caller. Um, you have the ability, if they are a known caller, to greet them by first name, uh, because especially with any of those integrations that you've got, you're pulling that information out of whatever the CRM is so that you have that ability to integrate.

Conrad: Um, and then just really provide that kind of personalized experience with all of those working together. But I, I think that goes back to a little bit of what you were talking about earlier in the sense that there are a lot of onion layers that need to be peeled back within CallRail that I don't- Right

think people are quite recognizing when they first look at setting it up as just a basic call tracking platform. A- [00:27:00] absolutely. Ca- and before we move on to that, 'cause I wanna, I, that was my next question, but you can also do all this with voice assist as well. It's not just whisper message to a live human.

Chris: You're running this also with, with voice assist and tying into the database, so you're getting that personalized experience even if it's a computer talking to you. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, actually, you know, you can sit in within your voice assist business profile, and you could put a script for a particular way that you wanted something to be answered, and it would be answered depending on if it came in this way or if it was this type of caller or if it was this type of case that you wanted.

You could put that script in and answer it based off of that script. So you probably have a little bit more, um, control over that situation than you might otherwise. But voice assist- Right ... it works the same way as, uh, a- any of your, the rest of your intake team. It just is, okay, when I route my calls, am I routing my calls to my live intake team, or is my live intake team completely [00:28:00] busy and so I'm routing my calls onto this voice assist track?

Conrad: They all work together. All right. You mentioned just now it's one of the ca- and I've always looked at CallRail, I always look at CallRail like Excel. It's easy to get started, but you can keep digging into the functionality and make yourself kind of a power user. What are some of those obvious things that beyond the this is a call tracking mechanism that people are missing?

Chris: I, I would start initially if I'm looking at it by how the call's being answered and, you know, going from there all the way through the intelligence, um, I think the obvious number one thing that I would start is whisper messaging. Uh, that is something that I think makes a whole lot of sense. I mean, even to the point of if you wanted to not just whisper message, but also route your campaigns a certain way.

I think that is an obvious- Because for all uninitiated, what on earth is a whisper message other than someone's whispering sweet nothings in your ear? Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's, it [00:29:00] is almost exactly like that. It is- ... a quick message that is given to whoever is answering the call that says this is where the c- the call is coming from So it's like somebody who is whispering within your ear.

Um, but you know, th-then you move into, okay, do I want these routed to a certain part of my intake team? I don't think people work within those routing trees as much as they possibly could to really maximize how they want things to be answered as a firm. Um, then I would move into the, the aspects of premium conversation intelligence, really being into that kind of automation rule or the keyword highlights where you can sit there and understand how many times that you had the word traumatic brain injury within your conversations and be able to easily understand that.

Um, we're getting to a point where you can then take that information. Maybe you have a certain way that you want [00:30:00] somebody to answer a call. Uh, we can organize that, put those keywords within there, and then organize it by whoever is answering the call so that you can get to a point where you can then have real live coaching feedback that you can give to somebody to make sure that your team is answering the call in the way that you want them to.

Um, the next step in that is gonna be multi-conversation understanding, um, but that's something that we're, we're still in the process of, uh, evaluating and working on. So, and then, you know, I think that once you get to that point, I really think the place that people are not peeling back the onion as much, and I think there is definitely an opportunity for it, is given how valuable individual PPC keywords are within the legal space, um, whether the conversation data that your firm is having can be used to generate potential keywords that people are searching [00:31:00] on so that you can get out in front of the bidding wars that are happening for particular keywords.

Conrad: If there was a way to do that and utilize that conversation data, I think that would be something that would be hugely beneficial within the legal space. Yeah, no, again, I think that the, the more seamless that your integrations between your call data are with your CRM and your practice management data, uh, you're gonna reduce administrative time, you're gonna get better performance outcomes, you're gonna have a more sophisticated view into the performance of your marketing channels, and you're gonna provide a better experience to the folks on the other end of the call.

And so it's a no-brainer to be using this stuff. Hey, Chris, I have a question for, this is a really self-serving question for Gyi and myself, or maybe it's a market research question. H- we used to do a lot of work with these integrations because the lawyers were like, "Ah, [00:32:00] it's too complicated," right? API keys, blah, blah, blah.

Um, how much are you finding the ease of use basically moving that lift from an agency, from a technical agency side who does this on the regular to the in-house marketing person because of the ease of use? Is that happen- I, I get the feel that that's happening, but I, that's only anecdotal. Yeah, I, I definitely think that's happening.

Chris: A- and it's also happening as we've enhanced our integrations and really, you know, gone from V1 to V2 to V3. Um, each time we've attempted to make them easier for whoever might be attempting to put them in place. I agree. Gyi, are you s- are you seeing the same? Do you have the, I mean, we're just speaking anecdotally here, but do you have the same feel?

Gyi: Yeah. I mean, we used to spend... We, we probably did a quarter of our revenue on this type of stuff, and now it's, it's more of a, um, problem-solving, [00:33:00] an occasional setup for a smaller firm, but, uh, or installation for a smaller firm. But it's, it feels much more like that than... It feels like the, the firms are...

Conrad: It's so easy to work with these things that the firms are bringing m- a lot of, a lot of this in-house. Yeah, no, I think that the, I mean, again, it's, a lot of it's a testament to the platforms, right? Like the, and this is why... And, you know, more philosophically, something that we talk about on the pod all the time is, um, some tech companies are kinda going the opposite direction from open ecosystem and integrations.

Right. Uh, you know, they wanna protect and, and be more sticky, and they're charging higher rates for API and turning off APIs. And I think that, uh, you know, CallRail, and Chris, you can correct me if I've got this wrong, but they've taken a much more, uh, open, uh, integrative, uh, approach. And ag- And one of the reasons that, you know, we are so proud to be a partner of CallRail's and recommend them, and, um, true of a lot of the [00:34:00] platforms and partners that, that we work with.

Chris: And I just think that it, part of that issue that people are able to implement this stuff on their own is companies that take that approach. And I think, you know, longer term, those are the ones that I think have a, are, are more valuable to their customers than the ones that are doing walled garden and cutting everybody off.

I, I would agree. I mean, that's definitely been a core philosophy on the part of CallRail, has to be more of an open platform. Um, we, we've certainly experienced it. Um, we've experienced it within the legal space with a partner, um, or one who we had been integrated with that has definitely gone the opposite direction with respect to how they've handled things.

But that is, that tends to be, I think, um, it, it's more of a philosophical discussion of, do you think you should be the platform that owns everything? Or are you willing to admit that maybe you don't know how to do something the best, and you could actually just partner with somebody who is better at doing it than you are?[00:35:00]

Um, and I think there are, right now, there's seems to be a strain within multiple tech platforms that says we should own everything. Um, and whether or not that continues. Um, and really, I don't think it has anything to do with whatever they're providing value to the, the customer with. I think it's much more internally focused about, how can we maximize our revenue?

Conrad: 100%. And, and we're seeing this, right? And, and the, and the market, uh, starts to bear that out because people, even if there's certain features that you like from the closed system, you end up saying, you know, "Hey, I don't like all the features," and these other companies over here that are taking a more open and integrative approach, they're, you know, I think that that's where, uh, consumers are gonna gravitate to.

Gyi: I mean, I- we're already seeing that happen. And, I mean, this is an issue of the, the massive switching costs with these systems. I think what generally happens is you get outside money looking at, "Hey, we can own this entire life cycle," and they don't [00:36:00] recognize the massive switching costs. And you definitionally move to a restrictive, less open model, right?

And, and it, and people don't like that. It's just, we know that. Um, unless you're Apple, in which case, please don't take away my iPhone, right? Um, but, like- ... let's, let's not pretend that anyone's gonna be the Apple of the legal marketing world. I, I would say that, you know, the difference there, though, is that they're customer-focused, and always have been, and that's what they've built that ecosystem based off of, because they sit there and provide the optimal customer experience for their customers.

Chris: Yeah. You know? And I think that's where the, the mindset, um, is very different with the way these other players are approaching things. Well, Chris, thanks so much for your time and sharing your knowledge. And of course, as always, thanks for being such an awesome partner to Lunch Hour Legal Marketing.

Conrad: Absolutely. And the legal industry. Like, I mean that. You guys are fucking great. I love it. You know, f- CallRail, we, we found a, a bug a long time [00:37:00] ago in CallRail showing drop-down menus of accounts, and I will tell you, I have never had a technology partner that went out of their way so much to get that fixed.

Uh, I mean, from t- from product team to marketing team, like, everybody was, like ... It felt ... It w- from my experience, it probably wasn't, but it felt like an all hands on deck, and I will always remember that, and just makes me that much more ingratiated, uh, and grateful for CallRail. So great team you've got over there, great product.

Keep up the great work. I appreciate that. That's definitely, it's definitely what we strive to do. And with that, dear listeners, that brings us to the end of this segment. Thank you so much to Chris and CallRail for their partnership and sponsorship of Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. We are really grateful, uh, for the knowledge sharing here so that listeners can put CallRail and their practice management and CRM tools to use for better.

Until next time, Conrad and Gyi saying farewell from Lunch Hour Legal Marketing.[00:38:00]

Thank you for listening to Lunch Hour Legal Marketing. If you'd like more information about what you heard today, please visit legaltalknetwork.com. Subscribe via Apple Podcasts and RSS. Follow Legal Talk Network on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, and Instagram