Using Phone Calls to Drive Content Marketing to Sales



Zack: Howdy, everybody! We’re just going to wait a few more minutes before we get started. And yeah, just give us a few.

Hello, everybody. Welcome to today’s webinar on using your phone calls to drive your content marketing strategy.

My name is Zack Bedingfield, and I am the Search Engine Marketing Manager here at CallRail. And I’m here with Katherine Hosmer. Is that how you pronounce it, Katherine? – [Katherine] Yeah. That’s me.

She’s our User Interface Content Manager here CallRail. We’re going to go over a lot of stuff here. As you can see, we’ve got our emails and our Twitter accounts here as well. If there’s anything that we don’t cover during today’s webinar that you have additional questions on, feel free to reach out to us either during via the chat module or to reach out to us afterwards via email or Twitter.

Awesome. I’m really excited to be here with you guys today.

Also, heads up on housekeeping. If you have any questions, feel free to put them in there. Everybody is muted, so we can’t hear you. And the recording will be sent out to everybody afterwards. So feel free to just kind of take in the info, and yeah, we’ll be sending it out to everybody afterwards.

So with that, I’ll let you take it away, Katherine.

Thanks, Zack. So, I’m really excited to be talking to you guys today. Like he said, I’m Katherine. I’m the UX Content Manager here at CallRail. So what I do basically is I work with a team. We work directly with our product managers and designers to help write content for CallRail’s application.

Anytime a new feature is released, we write help documentation for those features. Anytime there’s an update to our application, we help write content for that. So we’re really here to make sure that the content that we create is, if that represents CallRail well, and then it makes you guys and our customers feel informed walking into the product, that you guys are confident in setting something up and that you’re making it.

We’re making it as easy as possible for you. So we’re going to try and release that today back to content marketing and how to use some of CallRail’s conversation intelligence features to make those content decisions. And we’re going to talk through four main points here that you see on this agenda slide.

Today’s Agenda

What we’re going to go over in this webinar:

  1. How to identify what your customers are looking for when they come to your website
  2. How to use CallRail’s Automation Rules feature to understand where your content needs are
  3. How to break down content decisions using conversation intelligence reporting

The first thing we’re going to talk about, how to identify what your customers are looking for when they come to your website. We’re then going to move on to how to use CallRail’s Automation Rules feature to understand where your content needs are in your organization and how to break down content decisions using conversation intelligence reporting.

That’s going to be a fun part there because you’re going to be able to see some screenshots of CallRail’s application and we’re going to walk through how to set some of that stuff up. And the last piece we’re going to go over today is just a discussion on how these things help us measure our content for continuous improvement.

Cool beans. Before we kind of move forward, just so we have an idea of where people are at as far as the kind of automation tools that maybe they’re already using. We’re to launch this poll to kind of see if you’re using any kind of automation to inform your content marketing decision so far. So, are you mining data from your AdWords campaigns?

Are you taking it from your phone calls? Are you looking at the pieces of content that are on your site right now to try and re-inform the kind of your content marketing strategies? And it looks like, yeah, a good number of you, about 50% of you are using some type of automation, but you’d like to do more. And then, yeah, it’s kind of going back and forth.

Thanks, everybody. We just want to get an idea so we know for moving forward. And we will get that fixed. I’ll just pop it back up.

The method I’m going to talk about over the next half hour or so includes a couple of features that CallRail offers. So three of the four things that you see up here are actually part of our conversation intelligence suite. CallRail’s conversation intelligence features, they’re super awesome, something that we’ve spent a lot of time developing on our end.

We have such talented developers here at CallRail that have spent so much time building out these things so that you don’t have to manually interact with every call to understand how your calls are performing and how your campaigns are performing. We, like I said, have built out our own machine learning technology to try and understand what makes a caller a lead, what maybe doesn’t make them a lead, what kind of keywords or phrases in specific industries do people use before they make a purchase, really cool things like that.

How to identify what your customers are looking for when they come to your website

Our goal with conversation intelligence is to offer a product that takes the labor out of understanding your calls. So the first thing that we’re going to take a look at today when it relates to all this content marketing stuff is CallRail's Transcriptions. Transcriptions is a service provided by CallRail. It not only transcribes your calls, it also organizes your calls and separates the caller from the agent or employee answering the phone.

It’s an easy way to know exactly what happened on a call without ever having to listen to a call recording. It saves so much time. So if you decide to move forward with any conversation intelligence features today, the first thing you’re going to want to do is turn on Transcriptions. The next thing that we’re going to look at is Keyword Spotting. It’s one of the most crucial pieces to the puzzle that we’re going to talk about today.

How that works is it identifies specific keywords in a phone call. It lets you know which person on the call said those things, so if that was the caller who said a specific keyword or the agent who said that specific keyword, they’re going to display right there on your caller timeline. So you can click right to that point in that conversation where the keywords were said and the call recording will start playing automatically.

There’s also a key terms spotted report where you can see the top keywords mentioned for your calls over a specific date range. And you’ll also be able to see how many of those calls were classified as leads if you’re using CallScore, which is another thing I’m going to talk about in a minute here. So, this is a super helpful report.

It gives you twice the amount of information that you need, but it’s in a single place, which is awesome. One key thing that you’ll need to know about Automation Rules before setting it up, it is dependent upon having Transcriptions set up in your account first, so those two kind of go together there. The third thing we have here is Call Tags. I’m sure many of you who are current CallRail customers, you probably know what call tags are.

For those of you who don’t, call tags, they’re one of CallRail’s oldest and most commonly used features. Call tags allow you to categorize calls. You can quickly look at your dashboard and see which calls were tagged a certain way, so something like this is a sales call, this is a support call, this call was a telemarketer and I don’t want to spend too much time looking at that call.

It’s a really easy way to just have a quick look at your dashboard and know exactly what’s happening with the calls in your account. And finally, the last piece, CallScore. CallScore is CallRail’s automation tool that qualifies and scores your calls instantly as lead or not a lead.

When you use this tool, we will automatically score each incoming call to your tracking numbers based upon these machine learning models that I talked about before that have been built and created and tested for accuracy. So once a call is automatically scored, you’ll be able to see their score in your call log, your email notifications, and your caller timelines.

It’s like a little green thumb. If we score them as a good lead and if they’re not scored as a lead, then it’s like a gray thumb. All right. So, why conversation intelligence when it comes to content marketing? There’s so much talk right now in the tech world about machine learning and artificial intelligence.

There’s so many new tools and companies emerging. They’re looking to automate our daily tasks. And before exploring this topic and trying to figure out, like, how can I use our phone calls to create better content for our customers, I did a little bit of research and came across this really awesome article that was written by this Google executive. You can see a link to this article at the bottom of the slide here.

One of the things that he highlights from a survey that he got was that a third of the time we spend in the workplace involves collecting and processing data, which just rings so true for all of us in content. I know I spend so much time in Google Analytics and in our help desk software trying to figure out what people are searching for, which keywords perform best, which don’t, and so on and so forth.

Going in and finding that information is almost entirely a manual process, depending on what you’re looking for when you’re going into these different programs. So that means something like, “I’m spending 13 hours on average of my typical 40-hour workweek just digging into analytics and processing data.” And that’s a lot of time to spend doing that kind of stuff.

When you take call recordings and if you let CallRail do some of the footwork in analyzing these transcriptions for call, you don’t have to spend a third of your time on collecting that data. It’s really awesome because it’s just as simple as pulling a report that covers a timeframe of your choice, whatever works best for your business, and letting the keywords and CallScore do the talking.

How does that pay off for you? So there’s another important figure here that I want to highlight. Eighty-five percent of company executives believe that artificial intelligence is going to give their companies a competitive advantage. So when you’re spending less time processing data, that means you have more time to create more content, better content, and content that’s relevant to what your customers and your users actually want.

That means spending more time ensuring that the interactions your customers have with your product are a pleasant experience that lead to things like brand loyalty and more sales. If you haven’t read this article before, I highly recommend you check it out. The stats in here on this slide are just two of the data points that this author points out.

But it’s a really great read on why tools like conversation intelligence are helpful in simplifying workflows like we have in content marketing. So I totally recommend it. If you want to Google search, “How machine learning is changing the game for app marketers,” it’s by Jason Spero. He’s a VP of global performance solutions at Google. So we’re going to walk through how easy it is to set up these tools to make these smart content decisions.

But first, we’re going to walk you through this real quick. I’m going to use a fake company here as our example as we’re going through these slides. So let’s pretend that I’m a content manager for Atlanta Shoe Company, trying to answer three important high-level questions here, number one being, what words or phrases do people use when looking for more information on shoes on my website?

This includes things like alternate words and phrases people use in browsing my website. For example, something like maybe I sell high-heeled shoes, but what I am noticing at Google Analytics is that people are actually searching for stilettos instead of high heels, so that’s something that I need to know as a content marketer to optimize my content.

Number two here, what kind of shoes do our customers want? If I’m getting a ton of search hits for things like sneakers, cleats, and tennis shoes, but maybe only like a few searches for high heels, then I should probably take a look at the user path on my website that people are taking to find the sport shoes I have for sale, maybe rework that or see what’s happening there and why people are leaning towards one thing over another.

And finally, number three, where can we improve our website so that people make a purchase? What do our customers love about our website and what don’t they love? And how can we improve that experience for them? So the first thing we’re going to go through here is identifying what our customers are looking for.

Tools like Google Analytics provide search results for what your customers are looking for on your website. So you can use things like site search in Google Analytics to see what your top unique searches are over a certain time period or even drill down to see search refinements that show what users search for after they completed their first search.

What I typically do on a monthly basis is I take a look at what’s being searched on our help center which is CallRail support site. I take a look at what’s being searched for in our help center and I compare it to the analytics that we have in our help desk software. So at CallRail, we use Zendesk, that’s what our support team works out of. And Zendesk has this whole insight section that provides top searches, searches that return zero results, and searches that prompted a user to submit a ticket.

What questions did they not get answered when they were browsing our content? So there’s certainly many different ways and different software that you can use to get this kind of information. So using something that gives you the basics of what your customers are searching for in your website will help you with setting up these conversation intelligence features to optimize your content marketing. Another one that I’ve seen used that we use here at CallRail is Algolia.

I want to give a shout out to them too, because they are super awesome, and they have a really user-friendly interface and they take a look at the searches happening on your website as well. So to follow along with our company example here, it looks like we have customers of my Atlanta Shoe Company searching my website for keywords like sneakers, boots, sale, sandals, clearance, so on and so forth.

I’m going to go forward with these. I’m going to use these keywords to find insights about what colors when they search for these things on my website. So I’m going to go into my CallRail account, the first thing I’m going to do is I’m going to start setting up Automation Rules.

So there’s a couple of things that I want to cover just briefly to turn on before you set up Automation Rules. First things first, Call Recording is going to need to be active on your tracking numbers. And Transcriptions, which is that other conversation intelligence feature. That’s going to need to be active as well in your account. So this is important because this transcribes your calls and gives you those transcriptions.

The only way that CallRail is going to be able to identify those keywords in your calls is if you have Call Recording turned on. So those two things, just set those up first. So once those two are set up, you’re going to be able to set rules to detect specific keywords using what your customers search for on your website. You’ll also be able to add criteria to the rules that you’re going to set up, things like, “If you spot this keyword in my call, I want you to go ahead and automatically tag that call.”

All that data is going to be saved and available in your call log and caller timelines for later use, which we’ll look at here in just a few minutes.

I’ll chime in real quick about Automation Rules. For anybody who isn’t using CallRail but is using some type of call tracking software, you don’t have the benefit of the kind of automated activity of Automation Rules where it’s automatically finding all those keywords. But if you have access to Call Recordings, you can still pull a lot of this info.

It’s just a lot more manual, you’re going in and listening to all these calls, flagging in particular keywords and phrases. And you can still get some benefit there.

Here you’re seeing a screenshot from CallRail’s interface. This is our Keyword Spotting page. And this is in the Settings section of your account. So how you get here normally is you pick the company in your account that you’re going to work in.

You’re going to click that gear icon at the top of the page here. And then on the left side of the page, under intelligence, we have Automation Rules. So let’s dive in here. Let’s take a deeper look at this setup. So I just kind of like zoomed in here on what this looks like when you’re actually setting up Automation Rules.

The first thing you’re going to do on this page is enter those keywords that you want to target first. My advice here and what I’ve done in the past that seems to work really well is to set up keywords that are similar to one another within the same set. So in this example, I’m looking to target specific calls where someone said customer service or return policy.

If either the caller or the agent says those words at all on this call, then I told CallRail, here you can see, “If they say that, then I want you to tag the call that’s customer service.” Cool. So that’s my first keyword set right there. When I’m ready to add another one there’s this link below that says Add Key Term Set.

So click on that and it’s going to open up additional boxes. I put two in this screenshot here. So it’s normally one at a time. But just so I can show you guys the rest of my page, there’s two here. So I’m going to add two additional key term sets to target here. Following the same workflow from the previous slide that we just talked about, I’m going to target, let’s say, for the first one conversations that include red shoes and sneakers, and I want to tag those calls as sneakers.

If I want to take a look at calls when people are talking about sales and I want to enter clearance and sale here and tag the call as sale. So super easy. Once I’m finished with all my key term sets that I want to target, I’m going to click Save there at the bottom of the page.

This entire process that we just walked through, it should take no more than just a couple minutes if you have all of your data ready to go from your analytics software. Another important thing to note here, this allows all new calls coming into your tracking numbers start being tracked with Automation Rules. So this is just an important thing to remember.

It’s not going to go back in time and retroactively apply these tags to calls that happened before the setup. It’s just going to tag the new calls coming in with those keywords. So we’re going to fast-forward in fake time here and take a look at what the activity call log is going to look like. Depending on your call volume, it’s going to look something like this.

You guys might be familiar with this page, for those of you that are CallRail customers. This is the first page that you normally see when you log into your CallRail account. And you can always find this page by clicking Activity. It’s that little line graph at the top of the page. So for Atlanta Shoe Company, it looks like our most recent calls have been tagged with the keywords that I’ve set up there in Automation Rules.

We have, let’s see, two customer service calls, there’s one call about sneakers, and then two additional calls about sales. Awesome. So I can click into the caller timeline for any of these calls and start to learn more about what happened during this conversation without listening to the call recording.

This caller timeline button right here, it’s on every single call, it’s that little right arrow. So clicking on one and it takes me to a timeline. A beautiful and super organized timeline. It’s the thing that I love about conversation intelligence here in CallRail.

These caller timelines are super helpful even if you’re not using conversation intelligence. It provides pertinent information about the lifecycle of any given caller. So you’re not only seeing the caller ID information, how they found your website, which campaign they called, how many times they’ve called you, but you’re also going to be able to see all the conversation intelligence features that we’ve turned on.

The first thing you’re going to see here that we’re going to look at is, in this blue box, this key terms spotted section. So it shows me which keywords were said during a call and it also shows me the exact timestamp in the conversation where those keywords were said. It’s color-coded to let me know if the customer or the agent was the one who said those keywords.

In this example, that kind of like gray, blue color, these first two, those are the customer talking. That customer said sale at 2 minutes and 12 seconds, and then they also said clearance at 2 minutes and 52 seconds in the conversation. This brighter blue here, the last three, that is actually representative of the agent or employee talking.

They said clearance and they said sale twice throughout the conversation as well. If I click on any of those spotted key terms on the left, the transcription on the right is going to highlight that word right there. Sale. And it’s going to begin playing the call recording back to me right at that point in the conversation.

I’m not wasting my time clicking back and forth between a call recording to find the most important part of the conversation. I’m literally seeing what happened, reading it really quick, and immediately jumping to that point of the call. Another exciting thing that CallRail just released I wanted to briefly touch on is this Call Highlights piece that’s situated right at the top of the timeline here.

I just highlighted it there in that blue box on the side. Call Highlights help you bridge the gap between the conversation itself and the spotted key term. So this is super helpful for probably SEO and AdWords campaigns and things like that, as well as this content marketing piece that we’re talking about. So these are relevant keywords and phrases that may not have been included when you set up Automation Rules, but it’s there to give you a better idea of the context of your conversations, again, like I said, without listening to the call recording.

So here we have things like return policy, business hours, email list. This is all more information that we can use to write content for, like maybe I need to go into our homepage and make our business hours more apparent, or maybe find a place to surface our return policies better on our website. So this is super awesome.

These Call Highlights are going to appear on your caller timelines as soon as you have Transcriptions activated in your CallRail account. Okay. Third part, we’re moving into now making content decisions using our key terms spotted report.

One really incredible thing about CallRail’s key terms spotted report is not only can you see which keywords are used most often in your calls, it’s also going to show you how many of those calls were considered leads. So this is going to be super helpful in differentiating between the type of content you create for leads and existing customers. Something that I’ve done in the past looking at this is taking a look at what comes into CallRail’s account and saying, “If there’s a higher volume of calls coming in that are leads about a specific topic, maybe like porting for CallRail, then that tells me that we need to have, like, really good-looking marketing content to give out to potential customers and new customers about how easy it is to port a number in CallRail.”

But if I see something like porting getting a lot of support calls and they’re not showing up as leads, then that’s something that I know I need to go into the help center and take a look at, make sure that our content is clear on porting and make sure that’s an easy process for the people who are actively our customers and paying us money every single month. So we’re going to take a look here back to our example scenario, our key terms spotted report for the Atlanta Shoe Company.

So here is CallRail’s key terms spotted report. It’s available in your CallRail account within the report section. There’s that little pie chart icon at the top of your page. And you can click Key Terms Spotted in the left menu under that Behavior section for porting.

I have a 30-day date range selected up here. As you can see, we have these bar graphs and a table down below that shows us our top keywords. So for Atlanta Shoe Company, it looks like customer service is the most frequently spoken keyword in my calls. From there, we have sneakers is the number two and sale and red shoes. So in this date range, we’re going to take a look here at 236 calls where somebody said the keywords, customer service.

You can see that right here, that blue box that just appeared on your slide. Interestingly enough, 138 of those calls were considered leads. So in this case, for my shoe company, this means 138 potential buyers said these keywords on their call. So the bar graph above this table, it’s going to give you that visual representation of these numbers as well.

I can see clearly here that just a little bit of over half the calls I’ve received about customer service are coming from callers that were considered and categorized as leads. So what does that mean for my content marketing? So something like this where I’m taking a look and noticing that a little bit more than half of my calls are leads, that should be…this topic is a great candidate for new content geared towards new customers.

It’s what people are talking about the most, in general, but it’s also, most importantly what my leads are talking about the most. So something like this tells me I can create better content for sales purposes, maybe putting my customer service number in a better place on my website, or maybe creating more content that’s linked to the homepage that gives potential leads more information about our customer service.

On the other hand, we have red shoes at the bottom of the table here sitting as the keywords with the least amount of leads. This tells me that potential buyers, they’re not really asking me or my business about red shoes on these calls. So if I really believe that red shoes are important as a core foundation of my business, then that tells me I need to build up the hype a little bit more around red shoes, or maybe I should take it as an indication that I can focus my content marketing on the keywords and phrases above that are driving more leads.

Another really cool thing I wanted to quickly point out about this report, I can actually drill down into specific calls by clicking these blue links here in the total calls and leads columns. That’s going to actually pull up a list of calls that match that criteria if I want, and I can go right into the caller timelines from there, like we saw in those first few slides.

Finally, as with all good content programs, we need to measure our content for continuous improvement. If you see new keywords or phrases in your Call Highlights, set those up in your Automation Rules configuration so that you can always be on top of what your customers are talking about. One of the greatest things that I found to come of these reports and insights is the ability to understand where our content needs to live.

If certain topics are bringing in a greater amount of leads, shows me that our content marketing for these subjects are working, and it’s bringing more business for us, it’s bringing in more phone calls, and it’s making us more money. But we can’t forget about the customers we’ve had that keep coming back to us. So it’s important to use Automation Rules and call transcriptions to understand the context of the calls.

If you see a keyword that typically has frustration surrounding it from your customers, you take that as a good sign. You can go back, you can revisit your content strategy, you can create better resources for your agency answering the phone, or you can create better content to address your customer concerns, because I do believe, truly, one of the biggest things that we need to remember as content marketers is that it’s important to understand how our customers talk about our products.

Their feelings and actions when they are talking about your business or talking to your business, those are valuable insights that can help you create content and user experiences that bring loyalty and makes this easier for them to understand who your company is and it gives them the power to be a voice and an advocate for your business.


– Cool beans. All right. Well, first question that we’ve got here is, what kind of accuracy does CallRail have when determining whether or not their calls are leads? So I think that’s in reference, specifically, to the CallScore feature.

– Oh, what is the number of that? It’s at the top of my head. I know that our transcriptions are, I believe, it’s either 85% or 88% active, but I don’t know the number off the top of my head, and I’m so sorry about that, About CallScore. What I can tell you about CallScore, though, is that we actually, when we built those tools, we divided things out into verticals.

We took a look at, like, what does a real estate agency need to look at when they’re bringing in good leads? What does a marketing agency look at when they’re trying to bring in good leads? And we built these machine learning models based on…they are all industry-specific. So I’d like to think that the number is fairly high.

Unfortunately, I don’t have a number off the top of my head, and I’m sorry for that.

– No worries. With that in mind, we’re talking about the shoe store example which I guess could be both physical with brick and mortar or e-commerce. But with that in mind, what other kind of industries and verticals are taking advantage of these AI features in CallRail?

– Oh, man. Oh, gosh. All of them. So, we see marketing agencies use them, obviously, to…Actually, let me go this way. Marketing agencies are using them to be able to give to their clients, “This is how many good leads that I brought into your business this month.This is how my campaigns are performing.”

But we’ve also seen in customer service situations a lot of sales managers or call center managers taking advantage of things like Automation Rules to measure customer satisfaction, which customer satisfaction, obviously, applies to a whole plethora of industries, so like, automotive, medical, real estate, all of those things.

We want to make sure that the people we have on the phones, they’re kind to our customers, they address our customers’ concerns, and our customers aren’t mad or frustrated by the time they get off the phone. So Call Highlights and Automation Rules really help drive that customer satisfaction part of it. And then, of course, the agencies and things like that are using CallScore to qualify their leads and show their customers how many leads are coming in every month.

– Yeah. It’ll show them how many leads are coming in, how many calls are good. But really, for some of these agencies with high volume, it really just speeds up their workflow. What typically would be, I mean, an hour-plus process to go through a bunch of different calls can be automated really quickly when you’re using AI features. And I guess here we go. Last one, or no, here we go.

Can some use Automation Rules if they’re in trial or do they have to have a paid account?

– No, you can use it in trial. One important thing that I did want to cover too, costs for features, CallScore, that feature that shows if your calls are leads or not. There’s no additional cost for that feature, and that is something that not a lot of call tracking companies offer, but CallRail does.

CallScore is included, it will be there in your trial for you to try out, and it doesn’t cost any extra money. If you become a paying customer of CallRail, it’ll always be free. Call Transcriptions itself is two cents per minute. And Automation Rules is included in Call Transcriptions. So really, the only cost you’ll incur to set up this that we walked through in this presentation is just a couple of cents per minute per call for your transcriptions.

So you can always cut down this cost if you’re looking to work within a budget here. You can always cut down this cost by setting up what we call Call Transcriptions criteria, and that’s basically just creating rules around the type of calls you want transcribed if you don’t want all of them transcribed. And then just to wrap up the rest of the setup, Call Recording and Call Tags are also included in your account at no additional costs.

And you can have it as many times as you want in your account as well.

I’ve got a question here from a customer who’s in healthcare, and they’re having a hard time with lead scoring as they find there aren’t enough buckets “to pop them into.” So for instance, how would you decipher between doctor referrals and general public calling in from campaigns? And I don’t think there’s a technical way that we’re deciphering between that.

It’s outside of the AI listening to the calls to try and figure out whether or not it’s a referral or it is someone general calling in. That’d be a scenario where if you do have somebody who has a recording, and correct me if I’m wrong here, Katherine, that you would maybe want to instruct your staff in your store or, excuse me, in the doctor’s office, or whatever office it is, to ask a line of questioning that makes sure that referrals are brought up to confirm whether or not it’s a referral or not.

A really interesting use case that I heard from one of our product marketing managers last week, which is really awesome, and it just goes to show you, we have such smart customers. And I can’t remember if it was a doc. I think it was a dental office. What they did is, basically, they set up a rule with anybody who came on board who is being trained.

I’m going to try to apply it to your specific situation here. So those people answering the phones, they were trained to end a call with something like, “Thank you for making an appointment with Dr. Zack.” Okay. So they have to end every call that resulted in an appointment with the line, “Thank you for booking a call with Dr. Zack.”

They set up Automation Rules to detect that line and then automatically tags that call as booked an appointment. And I’m sure the same thing could go in what you’ve described there. If you’re training your agents on the phone to say like, “And how were you referred to us,” and then you tell CallRail, “Keep a lookout for ‘how are you referred to us,’ tag it as referral”that can kind of help you split your buckets up a little bit more. It just takes a little bit of that trading with the people answering the phones to get this really clean, really helpful data.